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Speaker 1: Hello, hello.

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It's Nadine here, and I'm here with this week's episode of Life

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, health and the Universe, and this week I'm joined by my guest

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all the way from the US of A Michael Rubino.

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Welcome, michael.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much .

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Speaker 1: It's been a kind of like we've been playing around

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with our time zone so I have no idea what time it actually is

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with you right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're in the future.

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Speaker 1: I'm in the future.

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How cool is that.

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Speaker 2: It's 5pm, but a day earlier Okay cool.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me tell you , today has been okay so far.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited to see what tomorrow brings.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for telling me that it's kind of weird that

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stuff isn't it All right?

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let me do a quick intro of you, michael.

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So you're the founder of Home Plans I'm reading off my

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notebook A company dedicated to addressing the worldwide health

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epidemic caused by poor air quality.

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So that's what we're going to be talking about today.

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So you have got a huge B-hag, a big, hairy, audacious goal.

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It is to improve the quality of life of 100 million people each

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year by 2030.

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That is some B-hag.

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Hats off to you.

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You're the author of the book the Mold Medic and you've been

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featured when you're getting your word out there on, so

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you've got some great accolades.

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You've been featured on Gwyneth Paltrow's podcast, the Goop

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podcast, vice TV, vogue, livestrong, to name a few, and

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now you're with us.

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So I'm super excited to find out all about you and what

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you've been doing and this massive mission you've got,

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because, as the podcast suggests , life, health and the universe

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we can kind of talk about everything, but health is so

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like a massive part of living, right, and there are so many

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layers, and when you guys contacted me to propose this

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call, it just reminds me of how many things and how many layers

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there are when it comes to being healthy.

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We might tick the exercise box.

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We might tick the eating well box, but there's so many things

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and this is one.

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So before we get stuck into talking about all of those

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things and before I ramble on any more, let me hand over to

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you.

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I'm just shutting the window.

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It's summer here and we've got cicadas.

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Do you get them where you are?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Every once in a while.

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Speaker 1: Really noisy.

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So, yeah, yeah, they were drowning me out.

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Okay, so that's my little intro .

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Welcome, Michael.

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Thank you so much for joining us.

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Tell us a little bit about all of the things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, thank you, and thank you for having me and

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for accepting this opportunity to have an amazing conversation

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today.

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But one thing I want to say before I even introduce myself

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here is you know, it just made me realize it is so much easier

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to be unhealthy than it is to be healthy.

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Huh.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yes.

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Speaker 2: Totally.

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It's crazy.

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I got into what I'm doing today about 12 years ago now and I

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was my father's been a restoration contractor since I'm

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five years old mainly fire restoration, but fires get put

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out with water and water is earth life source.

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So we really see a lot of microbial activity in that

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industry.

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But I never really thought much of it.

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You know air quality it was.

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You know this elusive thing.

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I mean, air is invisible.

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What are you talking about?

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There's no quality to it.

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And that was until Hurricane Sandy happened in the Northeast

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of the United States.

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And you know tens of thousands of homes get decimated or water

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damage situations and all of a sudden people started

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complaining about their health.

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And that was really an eye opener for me because it was the

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first time I realized wait a second, so our homes can make us

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sick.

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What is this air quality?

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You know what's going on here and I realized, wow, our homes

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can actually be gigantic Petri dishes that we live inside.

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And when I started to dive into the science of this, looking at

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different medical reports, laboratory reports of people's

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homes, I saw a pretty stark correlation of how people are

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feeling, based upon what their home is telling us medically and

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scientifically through lab data , and that was when I started to

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go on this you know 12 year journey shouting from the

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rooftops.

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Hey, I think one of the biggest missing links here to this

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health piece is air quality and the amount of stuff that comes

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into contact with us on a daily basis.

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It's something to the effect of like 100 million particles

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enter the body every day through the air, which is crazy to

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think about, and some of the stuff that we breathe in, like

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our own dead hair and skin cells , aka dust not nearly not really

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as big of a problem.

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Our bodies are used to it.

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But when we start talking about extreme levels of mold and

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bacteria and VOCs and all the things that we have in our homes

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that we don't think about, that's when things start to

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really get problematic.

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And after helping thousands of people get better by just fixing

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their air quality, I mean it has been a remarkable ride.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, did you, were you Okay?

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Did you have any health issues yourself that you have kind of

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attributed to this or not?

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Really.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah.

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So last year I literally had to go on this entire detox program

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myself, because you know, 10 years of going inside people's

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homes and doing the best you can to protect yourself, but it's

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nothing's perfect I started to notice that I was gaining weight

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for no reason.

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I'm still not where I should be weight wise, but I've lost 40

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pounds this year, and so when I look at it from this perspective

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of why am I eating so healthy but gaining so much weight, like

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you know, to gain, to gain as much weight as I gain in a

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course of a year the year prior, which was about 50 or 60 pounds

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, you would think I was eating nothing but cheeseburgers and

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pizza, right.

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But no, I'm eating nothing but like cauliflower, rice and

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broccoli and, you know, six ounces of meat or fish, right.

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And so it's really interesting to see how I just started going

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in this direction.

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I was tired all the time.

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I had massive bags under my eyes, pretty much 24 seven.

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I would get eight hours of sleep, but not feel like I

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actually got any sleep, and so once I realized, wait a second,

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I'm probably dealing with this exposure to environmental toxins

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the way most of my clients do, from all of this built up

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exposure, I went ahead and did pretty much the same detox

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protocols most people do when they find themselves in that

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situation, and within 30 days everything changed.

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For me it was like a light switch, I would say.

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I started losing, you know, two , three pounds a week.

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Wow, I started feeling energized when I woke up.

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You know, a lot transformed for me that continues to improve

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today and, as a matter of fact, I think, probably at the top of

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2024, because it's been about two years now since I did the

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detox I probably do for another one because, you know, I think

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many different variables exist but unfortunately, because I've

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subdued myself to so much environmental exposure over the

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years, my detox pathways and my body may not be detoxing as well

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as it used to Right, and so maybe it needs a little bit more

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support.

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But I'll tell you, the sauna, sweating in the sauna was

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probably one of the most life transforming things that I did

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on this program, because, you know, just, I think sweating

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this stuff out was it really made a massive difference and it

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made things go faster.

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So that is kind of my, you know health story in a nutshell.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: That only further prove my theory of how important

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this really is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, well, we're going to have a lot to

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talk about.

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So I live, I moved to, I'm on the East Coast of Australia.

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We moved four years ago to the Mid North Coast, which is very

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humid, rains a lot, and a lot of people here complain of mold

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and damp and, interestingly, when we lived in Sydney, there

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was certain we lived in an old Victorian house.

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This is my experience and I've kind of, you know, putting two

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and two together and I don't know that I've 100% determined

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that this is the cause, but I kind of think it is.

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When we lived in Sydney, we were in an old Victorian house and

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there was damp coming up from underneath, right, so some of

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the walls started to show signs of damp and at certain times of

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the year my eyes would get really red and puffy and, like

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you could even feel in the house it felt kind of what, like the

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air felt kind of moist, wet, and it always happened at the same

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time of year, right, that this puffiness, and it was obviously

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to do with the weather and the cold climate.

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And then, when we moved up here, the same things started to

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happen and even in the last couple of days we had some

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really hot days and it was really humid and I woke up in

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the morning and you mentioned the puffy eyes and I had really

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puffy eyes and one thing that I find helps it is hopping in the

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sauna and it's like I've and I'm kind of going I wonder whether

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it's because of the rain and the damp and the high humidity and

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like stuff in the in the air, and that's kind of like a small

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thing, but I've, I really noticed it.

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Yeah, and I think that because, like you say, you can't see it.

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You know you can see mold on ceilings and walls and whatnot,

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but you can't see the air and you don't know what you're

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breathing in and what impact it's having on your body.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I mean, what's interesting about mold

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too is, you know, a lot of people don't realize it's

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actually two different things.

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It's a living organism and then it also creates spores, which

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are kind of like seeds, right, which are not themselves alive,

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but those seeds is typically what enters our body when we're

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taking breaths, and those seeds are about two to four microns in

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size.

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So that's very, very, very small, about 25 to 50 times

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smaller than what the eye can actually see.

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So, essentially, when you're breathing, this stuff in is

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completely invisible, but yet you might see some stuff on the

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ceiling or on the wall, right.

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So it's, it's.

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It's always interesting because I think a lot of people get

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confused like well, how does that influence my health?

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How does that have the potential to make me sick?

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Same thing as bacteria, right.

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Like we know, bacteria exists.

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Yeah, we've, we've been taught we have to wash our hands, okay,

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but no one realizes that bacteria actually gets airborne

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and most of the bacteria that you come into contact with is

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actually being inhaled.

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So it's interesting, you know, to see, I think, how this

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relates to our homes in our health, because as long as we're

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not aware of it, we're not going to be taking action, we're

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not going to be taking steps to do something about it.

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Right, and I think that's one of the that's been.

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One of the biggest problems for me is, like you know, you talk

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to doctors and doctors, unless they're specialists and

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environmentally acquired illness , they have no clue.

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Right, and when we look at it from that perspective, if we're

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going to doctors and this happens to so many people, right

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, they go to doctors, they're looking for answers, they're not

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feeling well, you know they.

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Sometimes they get shifted around to 40, 50 different

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doctors.

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Finally, somebody says hey, have you ever thought of maybe

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checking your environment?

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And it's like boom, all of a sudden they test their

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environment, their environment's not good and as soon as they

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leave the environment, instantly they start feeling better.

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And that's been one of the most remarkable things to see.

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And it's like well, how do we not know more about this?

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You know, why is this such?

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This, this hidden, unknown thing and I think the reality of

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it is is because we're so focused on exercise and food and

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the quality of water that we drink.

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Right, we just we've always thought that, you know, as long

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as I'm exercising and I'm ingesting the right substances,

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I'm going to be healthy, and it's no one's looking at the air

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we breathe.

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And it's crazy because when you think about the air we breathe

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20 breaths per day it is enough air that we consume on a

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daily basis to fill up a normal size swimming pool.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Now, when you put it in that perspective, you are

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definitely consuming more air than anything else, more air

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than food, more air than water, more air than supplements.

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And then thinking about how we can literally inhale 100 million

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particles a day.

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So that's crazy how much that can happen.

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And these particles that are smaller than 10 microns in size

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I mentioned the size of mold earlier.

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It's less than 10.

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The real health hazard there is that anything smaller than 10

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microns can bypass our self-defense mechanisms and

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enter the bloodstream.

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So we get hit with a double whammy through air quality,

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because it can affect our lungs and then, if it passes into the

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bloodstream, now it's being ingested, so then it can affect

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our gut, which can then affect our brain, and so it's actually

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got a pretty severe risk.

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And I think that's why.

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What did we learn with COVID?

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Right, air transmission was the greatest route of exposure.

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It was the first time people really heard the word air

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transmission before, typically.

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So we're learning a lot as time goes on, but unfortunately I

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feel like we're not learning fast enough and there's too many

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people struggling out there across the globe, and I have

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consults with people all over the world and when people come

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to me and they're struggling.

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I'm a father, I'm a husband, I have two small little ones.

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I want to see people healthy and happy, not sick and

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depressed, and unfortunately there's so much of that these

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days that I just want to do the best that I can do to make the

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world a better place.

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Speaker 1: That's a pretty cool mission.

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Ok, there was a whole bunch of things that I was having, these

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questions, bing bing, bing, bing .

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Where do I start?

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So you've talked about.

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No, I'm going to go back a step .

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Actually, why do you think it's becoming more prevalent?

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Is it because we are less healthy in general?

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Is there more exposure?

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Surely, mold has always been around, right, but there's that

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movie, the Fabulous Fungi or whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: Is it?

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Speaker 1: Fabulous Fungi or.

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Speaker 2: Fabulous Fungi so.

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Speaker 1: They talk about mold, right, and they say that that

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is a type of mold and it's been around and it serves a purpose.

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It does, it does serve a purpose, so like is there more

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of it, or are we just more sensitive to it?

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Speaker 2: So good question.

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There's certainly more of it, at least in North America,

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because the EPA and HUD have done studies.

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They did a pretty big study in 1994, another one in 2006,

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another one in 2019.

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And I'll tell you, from 1994 all the way to 2019, it's

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getting worse.

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It's getting more prevalent.

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So the building practices that we have been pushing for, which

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tie into energy efficiency, have been done in a way where we

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didn't think about the people living inside these spaces.

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Now, energy efficiency.

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So let's go back to 1970s.

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Richard Nixon is president of the United States.

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We're dealing with a global energy crisis.

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Okay, and it was a global energy crisis.

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So what did everybody do?

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Well, everybody said we have to figure out how to be more

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efficient with energy.

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This is pretty much a global recognition that we needed to

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change.

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So what did we do?

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Well, we made changes.

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Now, homes get built, and homes and buildings they get built

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tighter today than they did 20, 30 years ago.

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What does that do?

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Well, let me tell you the human being is going to exhale a lot

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of bacteria particles, a lot of virus particles.

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Why?

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Because, if you didn't know, this bacteria lives inside of

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you.

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So do viruses.

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It's not until your immune system is weakened, that

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something like a bacterial infection or a viral infection

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would then take over.

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Normally, your body has functions very well, living with

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all these different types of bacteria and viruses living

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inside of you at any given time.

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Now, when we are constantly breathing these things out and

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we have things like water damage that allow mold to grow, and we

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have all these toxins that we introduce into our house via

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household chemicals, modern friture formaldehyde, vocs.

00:19:01
We're now in a situation where our body is getting bombarded

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with things that it has to consistently remove and the

00:19:08
kicker is there is no air exchange that's allowing fresh

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air to come in.

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And we're talking third grade science class here, where air

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will dilute the amount of particles that would be present.

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So fresh air is going to dilute .

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So that means if we have fresh air, we're breathing in less

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particles because we're diluting the amount of particles in the

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air.

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Well, if you live in a bubble and you have all this stuff

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releasing into the bubble consistently, you're going to be

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breathing in more and more stuff inside that bubble.

00:19:45
So then we have the modern HVAC system.

00:19:47
Well, the modern HVAC system huge in the United States.

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Speaker 1: What is that?

00:19:53
Speaker 2: Well, it's a lovely system that essentially takes

00:19:57
air in conditions it then supplies it back out.

00:20:00
Okay, the lovely air conditioning system.

00:20:02
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was going to ask you about that.

00:20:04
Speaker 2: So the biggest issue with air conditioning systems is

00:20:07
they create condensation.

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They're designed to remove moisture from the air condition.

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It supply it back out and that's what gives us this

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beautiful, comfortable 70 degrees Fahrenheit.

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I'm not sure what the Celsius is, you'll have to forgive me

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for that 21.

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Speaker 1: Perfect.

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Speaker 2: That's the ideal temperature, right, and so, in

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hindsight, we didn't think about the filtration needs to prevent

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mold and bacteria from growing in them.

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And we've just gotten to this place where now we have all

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these particles present.

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None of us have good enough filters to block these tiny

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particles from getting to the unit, and then it just starts

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growing in the unit.

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And did I mention the buildings were tighter?

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So, as you can see, this is a perfect storm.

00:20:52
Yeah, so there's more.

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It just bombard your body.

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Speaker 1: If you're in buildings where there's lots of

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people compacted into apartments and stuff as well, I guess like

00:21:02
there's going to be just more people producing more stuff.

00:21:06
Does the, do the particles in the air reproduce as well?

00:21:11
Like, do they become more?

00:21:13
So not the particles themselves ?

00:21:17
Speaker 2: But if you have organisms, they reproduce.

00:21:20
So if one of these spores or seeds gets to a wet area and has

00:21:28
the right resources to grow, that seed becomes an organism.

00:21:32
So in an HVAC system you might have one seed that gets in there

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creates an organism.

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That organism reproduces more and more seeds, the organism

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colonizes and grows bigger and bigger and it's just reproducing

00:21:48
tons of particles that we'd be breathing in.

00:21:51
So that's kind of how this works.

00:21:54
So a leak that happens in somebody's home, not a big deal

00:21:58
at first, but if you don't fix that leak quickly and you allow

00:22:02
it to continue to happen, it's going to be a living Petri dish

00:22:07
inside your wall thereafter and it'll get.

00:22:10
It will reproduce at that point .

00:22:11
And that's how we start to see it.

00:22:14
Unfortunately, buildings are not designed to last forever.

00:22:18
They're not designed to keep water out forever.

00:22:21
Nothing lasts forever, unfortunately, and so they're

00:22:25
going to leak.

00:22:25
Statistically speaking, it's like one every 10 years.

00:22:27
So, unfortunately, if your house is built in 1980, let's

00:22:33
say you've got, probably at this point, four major leaks that

00:22:38
would have occurred and if they weren't fixed properly, they

00:22:43
could still be impacting you 40 years later.

00:22:45
And that's what we see all the time.

00:22:48
Speaker 1: Wow, okay, what about ?

00:22:51
I just wrote something down somewhere.

00:22:53
Does climate like are we seeing more rainfall?

00:22:59
Is that contributing to it or not?

00:23:02
Speaker 2: really, Well, we certainly are seeing more

00:23:08
frequency of storms and rainfall and all these things, and

00:23:11
obviously it depends on the climate and where you're located

00:23:14
.

00:23:14
But yeah, I mean, we are seeing historic devastation,

00:23:19
especially from the southeast through the northeast of the US.

00:23:23
Every fall, we expect to see all these different hurricanes

00:23:29
and they're getting more ferocious and worse, and even

00:23:32
the smaller ones are creating more damage.

00:23:34
So I think that definitely plays a part in it as well, but

00:23:40
I think for me it's.

00:23:42
We've got the perfect storm.

00:23:44
We've gone so far in this direction of energy efficiency

00:23:49
without putting countermeasures in place.

00:23:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure.

00:23:53
Speaker 2: And then you have more rainfall and more storms,

00:23:57
and then you've just got modern HVAC systems and how that

00:24:01
influences that.

00:24:02
And at the end of the day, our bodies can only handle so much.

00:24:06
And that's when we start to see an increase in chronic disease

00:24:11
and autoimmune disorders.

00:24:13
And look, if we take out Google right now and ask how sick are

00:24:19
we, you'll see, as a global population, we have never been

00:24:22
sicker than we are today.

00:24:23
We get increasingly sicker.

00:24:25
Over 60% of the global population deals with at least

00:24:29
one chronic condition.

00:24:30
40% of the global population multiple chronic conditions,

00:24:33
meaning two or more.

00:24:34
And how could that be if we are healthier and maybe healthier

00:24:42
is the wrong word how could that be if we are trying?

00:24:46
Speaker 1: harder than ever before to be healthier.

00:24:51
Speaker 2: We've got pelotons and this and that in our home

00:24:55
environments.

00:24:56
We have workout equipment.

00:24:57
We have never been fitter.

00:24:59
We've got more availability to food than ever.

00:25:03
We have everything's organic, even big, huge chain warehouse

00:25:10
Costco stores.

00:25:11
They have organic groceries.

00:25:13
I mean you literally have better selections than you've

00:25:17
ever had in your entire life to eat healthier.

00:25:20
And I know we're trying, you know, I know we're trying.

00:25:23
We have cleaner access to water .

00:25:25
I know we're doing everything we can, but when everything we

00:25:29
can isn't good enough, when is it time to wake up and say we're

00:25:33
looking in the wrong direction?

00:25:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, or there are other things at play.

00:25:36
Tell us about some of these.

00:25:39
So we talk about autoimmune disease, right, and you say that

00:25:42
it's on the rise, and can you tell us what?

00:25:49
Some examples of autoimmune disease, what are they and what

00:25:54
are some of the symptoms that people might?

00:25:57
Speaker 2: experience.

00:25:57
Yeah, so there are a plethora of autoimmune diseases.

00:26:01
Essentially, they're all each specific autoimmune disease, you

00:26:08
know, like eczema is one.

00:26:11
You can have eczema for a few days and that wouldn't be

00:26:15
considered an autoimmune disease .

00:26:17
But if you have chronic eczema, that would be an autoimmune

00:26:21
disease, right?

00:26:21
What's interesting about autoimmune diseases?

00:26:25
There are many of them.

00:26:26
The chronic fatigue syndrome can be considered another one,

00:26:31
right?

00:26:31
All of them are diseases which are not known what the cause is

00:26:41
and there is no cure.

00:26:43
So, essentially, when you develop an autoimmune disease,

00:26:48
it typically develops due to chronic inflammation.

00:26:51
You now are basically told by our medical system that this is

00:26:57
your new life, you live with this and here's how you manage

00:27:00
these symptoms.

00:27:01
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:27:02
Speaker 2: You know which?

00:27:02
To me it's like why aren't we asking ourselves what causes

00:27:06
this and diving into that?

00:27:08
But you know, sometimes it's just the way things work.

00:27:11
We don't know the answer, so we say you have to live with it.

00:27:15
All of these diseases, pick anyone rheumatoid arthritis,

00:27:21
sibo pick anyone and watch how they've all been increasing over

00:27:26
time and we're not asking enough, ferociously enough, why

00:27:32
that is.

00:27:33
Now, when you look at the science behind autoimmune

00:27:38
diseases, they pretty much all start in the same fashion.

00:27:41
Something happens that triggers this and they believe it's

00:27:45
genetics, genetic predispositions.

00:27:49
They believe that it could be environmental, right, so that

00:27:54
could be environmental.

00:27:55
Breathing in it could be environmental what you're eating

00:27:57
, diet, all of that kind of stuff.

00:27:59
And that is pretty much what they've figured out of what

00:28:04
could be the response to this.

00:28:05
But it's an immune response.

00:28:08
Your immune system is responding to something not well

00:28:14
in your body.

00:28:15
Speaker 1: And with autoimmune Amarra, in saying that what

00:28:19
happens with all of these kind of autoimmune disease is that

00:28:22
our body starts attacking itself so we become unable to fight

00:28:27
off infection or imbalances.

00:28:30
Is that what happens?

00:28:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, that typically is what happens, because when

00:28:35
you're dealing with chronic inflammation, your body

00:28:37
naturally responds to that inflammation.

00:28:40
Speaker 1: And so it's kind of like an overreaction to an

00:28:45
increased sensitivity to.

00:28:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, so one of the best symptoms to explain this

00:28:56
whole response would be mass cell activation syndrome.

00:29:00
So that is literally when your body is in a hyperactive state

00:29:05
and you are fighting your own cells.

00:29:09
Your white blood cells are fighting its own cells because

00:29:14
it can't determine what is a foreign substance that should be

00:29:19
fought and the own cells that contain inside the body.

00:29:22
And what does this develop?

00:29:23
Chronic inflammation, and I think that's you know.

00:29:27
Obviously, there's different levels of chronic inflammation.

00:29:30
It can be acute chronic inflammation or it can be

00:29:33
extreme chronic inflammation.

00:29:34
The all these avenues, all these roads, they point back to

00:29:40
the same place it's chronic inflammation.

00:29:42
What causes chronic inflammation?

00:29:45
Well, certainly, breathing in things that are not good for

00:29:48
your health could absolutely cause chronic inflammation.

00:29:52
Right, we've seen that from chemicals, we've seen that from

00:29:55
particles, we're seeing it from mold, we've seen it from

00:29:58
bacteria.

00:29:59
You know, and it's interesting to me is because if you actually

00:30:05
start to piece the data together, it makes perfect sense

00:30:08
.

00:30:09
The problem is is that our medical communities across the

00:30:12
world they're not, they're not looking in this direction.

00:30:17
It's like we've all grown up in this civilization thinking how

00:30:21
could we possibly ever get sick from the quality of air?

00:30:25
I mean, look, everybody can Google right now air quality,

00:30:29
health.

00:30:30
You're going to see all kinds of news, news organizations BBC,

00:30:34
new York Times, all very reputable organizations showing

00:30:38
you different studies that exist on how air quality affects the

00:30:42
health.

00:30:42
The information's out there, but how many people know about

00:30:45
it?

00:30:45
And that's the problem, right?

00:30:47
And it's not just people, it's doctors too, the healthcare

00:30:51
professionals that we look up to when we're not feeling well.

00:30:54
For them to find and give us answers like the investigators

00:30:59
that we hope they are, but they're not, because they're not

00:31:02
getting educated on this either , just like the rest of us.

00:31:06
Speaker 1: That's really the problem the last resort.

00:31:08
Isn't it Digging deep enough to find this ultimate cause of

00:31:15
illness?

00:31:15
I read a book called Toxic, Neil Nathan.

00:31:21
Speaker 2: Neil Nathan.

00:31:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, I apologize, I haven't read your book.

00:31:26
Speaker 2: That's okay, no problem at all.

00:31:28
Speaker 1: I guess, like what I'd just like to comment on is

00:31:32
an example of someone who, like he, shares some stories of

00:31:36
patients that he's had.

00:31:37
So he talks about the toxicity, just as you do, and how

00:31:41
exposure to things like mold can cause these terrible autoimmune

00:31:45
diseases that people think that they are, like they are

00:31:49
basically destined to live with right For the rest of their days

00:31:55
.

00:31:55
And there was, I recall there was this one woman I can't

00:31:59
remember what autoimmune disease she had.

00:32:02
She was quite a, you know, a high flying executive and she

00:32:07
started to get brain fog and feel really fatigued and, like

00:32:11
she literally got to a point where she could barely walk.

00:32:16
Like this is what happens to people.

00:32:20
And, just as you've mentioned, like she went, you know,

00:32:24
obviously went to doctors, she had to give up her job, she was

00:32:27
trying to find out what the cause was and eventually she

00:32:30
found out that it was because of some kind of exposure to toxic.

00:32:35
You know, I'm not sure if hers was mold, but it was definitely

00:32:39
an autoimmune disease.

00:32:40
That was then treated and she got back to normal, like from

00:32:49
literally not being able to walk .

00:32:51
This is how extreme these things can become and, like you

00:32:57
said, it's like we just kind of blow it off like air quality,

00:33:01
surely that wouldn't.

00:33:02
It wouldn't be that bad.

00:33:03
Or a little bit of mold in our house, surely it would.

00:33:06
You know, just a little bit of wipe it off.

00:33:09
Can't see it, it's not there kind of thing.

00:33:12
Yeah.

00:33:14
Speaker 2: You know, I think one of the biggest issues that I

00:33:16
see is, unless it happens to you , you just don't think it's

00:33:22
going to happen to you, and that that is definitely part of the

00:33:27
problem, because a lot of this stuff could be prevented if you

00:33:30
looked at it proactively.

00:33:31
And, let's face it, you know if you start getting mold and

00:33:35
bacteria problems, you're going to have to renovate your home.

00:33:38
It's going to be expensive.

00:33:39
So you're much better off looking into things now, making

00:33:44
sure being aware of it now, making sure you're inspecting

00:33:48
your roof and windows and all the points that water can

00:33:51
intrude, and making sure your HVAC systems clean and properly

00:33:56
maintained if you have one, because the alternative is

00:33:59
getting sick and then still not believing you're sick because

00:34:04
it's your house, going on this journey to circle right back

00:34:08
full circle to realize it is your house and all the time and

00:34:13
money spent in between that gets wasted.

00:34:16
This is probably the average person.

00:34:18
That I'm describing is the exact client story that I could

00:34:23
share on almost every client, and it doesn't matter how rich

00:34:27
they are or how poor they are or what their social status is.

00:34:31
It happens to all of us.

00:34:33
Why?

00:34:34
Because what do we have in common?

00:34:35
We live indoors and if we can just shorten that suffering

00:34:41
cycle just a little bit, just give people the information in a

00:34:46
clear and concise way so that they can understand, wow, I

00:34:52
never thought about the quality of air that I breathe inside my

00:34:55
house more than ever before.

00:34:57
And listen, I know there are people listening that are

00:35:00
probably very health conscious that might have some air

00:35:03
purifiers plugged in around their house and that helps for

00:35:06
sure.

00:35:06
But let's go a step further.

00:35:09
Let's look at our house.

00:35:10
Let's look at the roof, let's look at the windows, let's test

00:35:13
for mold, because if we find mold, we're going to find

00:35:16
bacteria.

00:35:17
They grow in the same locations , taking up the same amount of

00:35:21
real estate from water, because they both need water to grow and

00:35:24
survive.

00:35:24
So when we start looking at these different culprits that

00:35:28
affect our air quality inside our house, if we start to do

00:35:32
things about it, I bet if one person from this podcast

00:35:36
listening goes and finds something and fixes it, even if

00:35:39
they feel 99% healthy, I bet you it makes a difference.

00:35:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.

00:35:45
So I'd love to pick your brains a little bit about some of

00:35:51
those things that we can do to check what's going on in our own

00:35:55
homes, but I'd also like to hear a bit more about like your.

00:35:59
So you mentioned right at the beginning that you've, like

00:36:03
we're here to talk about home cleanse, right?

00:36:05
Which is the system, would we call it, that you have developed

00:36:09
to help people who do find mold in their homes?

00:36:14
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:36:15
Speaker 1: And to help them clean it up and purify their air

00:36:19
.

00:36:19
So you talked about going on this long journey of, you know,

00:36:28
finding out what is actually going on.

00:36:30
Then, from from all of that information that you've

00:36:37
uncovered, how did you go about developing the system that

00:36:44
you've got?

00:36:51
Do you have a background as a scientist or like a, or was it

00:36:55
just like?

00:36:58
Speaker 2: Well, no, I had to basically develop a background

00:37:00
as a scientist.

00:37:01
My background was in we're talking.

00:37:04
I was in my mid twenties and I just got out of school and I was

00:37:08
studying marketing.

00:37:09
Okay, so I went from marketing to you know, let me work for my

00:37:15
dad a little bit and show you know, show him some modernized

00:37:18
marketing tactics to the holy, holy cow.

00:37:22
We have a problem here with, with, with what's going on to

00:37:26
then.

00:37:26
I have to study microbiology, because I have to.

00:37:28
In order for me to create it and develop a process, I have to

00:37:31
understand what is happening from the microbiology world

00:37:36
that's impacting the construction world.

00:37:38
Okay, in the United States we have these big, massive, you

00:37:43
know companies that if you have water intruded into your house,

00:37:48
you would call your insurance company.

00:37:50
Your insurance company would send one of these big, massive

00:37:52
companies to your house and it's it's.

00:37:55
It's a very much so construction like world where

00:38:00
they come in, they rip some stuff out, maybe they spray some

00:38:03
chemicals, and they're out your front door.

00:38:05
They're mainly billing the insurance companies for all the

00:38:09
fans they set up all over the place to just, you know, dry

00:38:12
everything out.

00:38:12
It's, it's like a whole.

00:38:13
When you really, when I really started to understand what is

00:38:19
happening, I was completely mind blown, because just setting up

00:38:26
the fans is a problem, because now you're blowing, blowing this

00:38:29
stuff around, so just that and itself is a problem.

00:38:33
Speaker 1: Okay.

00:38:34
Speaker 2: This gets done.

00:38:34
There are 50 companies in the United States alone that

00:38:38
come in in this same approach cut stuff out, set up fans and

00:38:41
just blow stuff around.

00:38:43
Speaker 1: Wow.

00:38:43
Speaker 2: So I quickly realized okay, there is a fundamental

00:38:48
problem with how this whole industry looks at this, because

00:38:53
you have the organism itself, which that's all they're

00:38:56
concerned with.

00:38:57
Okay, yep, but then you have the byproducts that the organism

00:39:01
creates, the spores, the toxins that they are not educating

00:39:07
people on I don't even think that they themselves are

00:39:10
educated on it and certainly they're not addressing they just

00:39:14
want to get out of there and get paid Right At the end of the

00:39:18
day.

00:39:19
They have made such a mess in people's homes that for seven

00:39:24
years after this hurricane I was still refixing homes that were

00:39:29
supposedly fixed, and I think that's how I started to kind of

00:39:34
build a name for myself, if you will, as this person that really

00:39:37
understands it can help people Thereafter.

00:39:40
The process really is fundamentally very simple, and I

00:39:45
think when things are simple they work.

00:39:47
You have to yes, you have to open the wall, you have to

00:39:50
remove the mold organism, but then you have to understand okay

00:39:54
, well, that organism might have been there for two years and in

00:39:58
those two years it's been creating these particles.

00:39:59
And we have to understand if it's in the HVAC, because if so,

00:40:03
that's got to be cleaned and dealt with properly.

00:40:05
Then what about all the person's stuff?

00:40:08
Well, it settles in the dust, it becomes a part of our stuff

00:40:12
essentially.

00:40:12
Well, all that has to be cleaned.

00:40:14
Wow, the house itself and every all the dust that's been

00:40:18
accumulating in that house that has to be cleaned right.

00:40:21
So I started developing this very thorough process and, of

00:40:25
course, insurance companies were not very friendly towards this

00:40:29
adaptive adaption to process, but it's necessary and after

00:40:35
doing this the way I've been doing it for the past 12 years,

00:40:39
actually it was really amazing to see there the main

00:40:44
organization that provides standards that the insurance

00:40:48
companies use is now changing to follow closer to my process,

00:40:54
which is great because that means that these insurance

00:40:56
companies are going to have to pay a little more money to do

00:41:00
things a little more properly, which is what we need.

00:41:03
After developing that process, I started getting calls from

00:41:08
people all over the country.

00:41:09
It wasn't just the New York area, where I'm from.

00:41:12
California needed help, and Florida needed help and Iowa

00:41:16
needed help, and I pretty much was forced into figuring out how

00:41:20
to make a nationwide company at that point to cover and go

00:41:24
anywhere we're needed.

00:41:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow.

00:41:26
Speaker 2: And so you know, I went from like one truck and a

00:41:29
couple of people that were trained by me to like 25 trucks

00:41:33
and many people trained by me, and it is extremely rewarding,

00:41:39
extremely exhausting, and you know it's a roller coaster of

00:41:44
fun, excitement and challenges.

00:41:47
Speaker 1: You know, definitely yeah.

00:41:49
Speaker 2: And you know that is pretty much how you know the

00:41:52
story goes with processes and all of these things.

00:41:55
But you know, all I really did, I didn't invent anything.

00:42:00
I didn't really figure anything out that wasn't already written

00:42:06
by other scientists in textbooks.

00:42:09
But what happens is, when you look at it from this perspective

00:42:14
of how do I create and define a process, I had to search maybe

00:42:19
20 different places and compile pieces of information from 20

00:42:24
different places to put it together, like my cleaning

00:42:26
protocol.

00:42:27
It's not from the mold industry .

00:42:29
They don't have a cleaning protocol.

00:42:31
I had to take it from the chemical cleanup industry

00:42:34
because, you know, we have oil spills, we have chemical spills

00:42:38
and all of that gets cleaned up in a very specific way.

00:42:41
And since mycotoxins are toxins produced by mold actually more

00:42:47
relate to a chemical exposure because it's a toxin, not really

00:42:52
like a particle cleanup.

00:42:53
It's a little bit different.

00:42:55
And so I started taking bits and pieces from other industries

00:42:59
and applying it together and once it worked and I can prove

00:43:04
that it worked time and time again by post-testing the place

00:43:08
after the fact, using, you know, a lot more technological

00:43:12
testing standards than the industry itself did then I

00:43:16
realized this could be done everywhere, anywhere you know,

00:43:20
as long as you apply these principles to the building

00:43:23
specifically.

00:43:25
Speaker 1: Wow, before we talk about some of the things that

00:43:30
you do and the system that you have, thank you.

00:43:35
When the normal everyday person thinks about mold, we think

00:43:46
about bleach.

00:43:47
Right, using bleach, just get rid of it.

00:43:49
Now, in my perspective, that seems like you're exposing

00:43:59
yourself to two tokens, and I've heard that it doesn't actually

00:44:04
get rid of mold.

00:44:05
Your products and your system have natural.

00:44:11
You use natural.

00:44:12
No, they're not chemicals, natural stuff.

00:44:16
Speaker 2: They're not chemicals , right yeah, natural all the

00:44:18
time.

00:44:18
Speaker 1: Natural products yeah yeah.

00:44:21
So that's obviously an important thing, isn't it?

00:44:24
And I guess, if we go back to like the basics of plants and

00:44:28
how they operate because I guess , like mold, is a kind of a

00:44:32
growing organism, plant type thing Botanicals have properties

00:44:39
in them to fight off mold, don't they?

00:44:42
So, for example, I know that tea tree is great for mold

00:44:48
because tea tree grows in hot, moist climates which are more

00:44:58
susceptible to mold.

00:44:59
So to stop them their roots from rotting, they kill it.

00:45:03
So it kind of makes complete sense that you would use

00:45:06
botanicals.

00:45:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are quite a few essential oils that are

00:45:13
really effective as disinfectants, and that's what

00:45:20
you're looking for.

00:45:20
When you're removing something like mold, you want to

00:45:23
accomplish three things.

00:45:24
You want to disinfect.

00:45:25
You also want something that has a surfactant in it, which is

00:45:31
really like the scientific term for dish soap, just to give

00:45:34
people some reference here.

00:45:35
You need something that soaps up and helps degrease and remove

00:45:39
particles, and you want something that is not going to

00:45:44
be toxic itself to your health, right?

00:45:47
Especially in today's world, there are so many botanical

00:45:50
options out there.

00:45:51
It's like why would you reach for the bleach, go for these

00:45:55
different things that you know?

00:46:00
Here's my take on this.

00:46:01
If the directions tell you that you have to ventilate the room

00:46:06
thoroughly to use the product, probably not a good idea,

00:46:10
because what it's telling you is if you put this stuff in a

00:46:12
small room and breathe enough of this stuff in, you're probably

00:46:15
going to die.

00:46:15
So they're literally telling you on the bleach instructions

00:46:20
make sure you ventilate very well or a lot of serious

00:46:23
complications can happen.

00:46:24
Well, that's probably not a product I want to be using in my

00:46:28
home.

00:46:28
Now listen, I grew up in the 80s and 90s, so bleach was

00:46:36
associated with clean smell.

00:46:39
Oh yeah, yeah, I think we have all experienced that euphemism

00:46:44
at some point, where we think that bleach means clean, but it

00:46:48
doesn't.

00:46:48
That smell is actually toxins entering your body and passing

00:46:53
through your olfactory senses.

00:46:54
The thing about bleach is for mold is it actually is not

00:46:59
effective at killing mold or removing mold.

00:47:01
It's effective at bleaching mold, and so I'm pretty sure you

00:47:06
don't care about what color it is, you just want it out of

00:47:08
there, and so there are so many better alternatives, like

00:47:14
botanical options thymol, tea tree oil, as you mentioned.

00:47:18
These are really good essential oil-based botanical products

00:47:24
that you can buy that you can use to clean it up safely and

00:47:27
effectively without any additional exposures.

00:47:36
Speaker 1: Cool, Now you were talking about when you were

00:47:40
going into houses.

00:47:41
I'm wary of the time we started .

00:47:43
We were running a little late, so I've got a couple more things

00:47:49
that I'd love to talk to you about.

00:47:50
Yeah, yeah, we have time, yeah, cool.

00:47:53
So you were talking about when you've gone into homes and

00:48:00
you've had to fix up these issues with mold and air quality

00:48:08
, and you talked about the furniture and the clothes and

00:48:12
how everything has to be treated , and I feel like that, for

00:48:15
someone, could be really overwhelming.

00:48:17
But I did see on your website that you actually have like do

00:48:24
you have products that people can use at home on their own?

00:48:30
Is it?

00:48:33
Well, I want to know what your system is.

00:48:35
I'd love to hear more about that, obviously, because that's

00:48:39
what we're here for.

00:48:40
But are there different levels of what people need?

00:48:48
And I guess that will then lead us to how does someone know

00:48:52
what they need?

00:48:53
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, so there definitely are different levels

00:48:56
of what they need.

00:48:57
Not every single person is going to need the exact same

00:49:01
thing, and that's mainly because your house might have a totally

00:49:05
different problem than my house , but I still need to get you

00:49:10
solutions the same way I would get myself solutions, and so the

00:49:15
process had to be tailored to becoming a data-driven process

00:49:20
around figuring out exactly what's going on in the home and

00:49:23
then taking a plan of how you're going to address it.

00:49:26
And I think cost is always everybody's biggest barrier to

00:49:33
trying to get healthier, and this is the same problem.

00:49:36
The barrier is going to be I can't afford to do everything.

00:49:41
So tell me what's the top three most important things I need to

00:49:45
do, and so we have a process for that how we look through the

00:49:49
data, understand what molds are present, how much mold is

00:49:54
present, what bacterias are present, how much bacteria is

00:49:57
present?

00:49:58
Are we talking about something that affects a large area of the

00:50:02
home, that impacts a large volume of air that you're

00:50:05
breathing in?

00:50:05
Well, good, I'm going to probably prioritize that over a

00:50:09
little leak in the sink, unless, of course, that little leak

00:50:12
wasn't so little.

00:50:13
So it's everything kind of gets put into a process that derives

00:50:19
from data.

00:50:21
Now, how does somebody start?

00:50:23
Well, this has been the other amazing and challenging part of

00:50:29
my journey.

00:50:29
Was you start telling people, hey, go test for these things.

00:50:34
And what do people do?

00:50:36
Well, they call anybody and they say do you test for these

00:50:40
things?

00:50:40
Good, can you come and test for these things?

00:50:42
Well, one thing that I forgot about was that it wasn't just

00:50:47
the people fixing the homes that had this archaic way of doing

00:50:51
things.

00:50:51
It was also the people inspecting the homes that had

00:50:55
this archaic way of doing things , because they worked together

00:50:58
with these people day in and day out, and there was this common

00:51:03
understanding where you just came in and you took an air

00:51:06
sample, and as long as the air sample was less than outside,

00:51:10
everything is good.

00:51:11
And that was just this whole system of how it was set up.

00:51:15
And so people would call these inspectors.

00:51:18
They'd come over, take an air sample in the center of their

00:51:21
house.

00:51:21
Numbers would look good.

00:51:23
They'd tell them guess what?

00:51:24
House is perfect.

00:51:26
Okay, so let's talk through why that doesn't work.

00:51:31
Let's just say we have a room that is 10 feet long by 10 feet

00:51:37
wide, all right, so my horrible meter conversion would be like

00:51:43
three and a half meters by three and a half meters.

00:51:46
The testing technology really only captures.

00:51:51
What did we learn from COVID about one to two meters away?

00:51:55
Right yeah, this testing technology really only captures

00:51:59
three to six feet or one to two meters away.

00:52:02
So if I'm testing in the center of the room, I'm pretty much

00:52:05
further away from where the problem might be.

00:52:08
Because how often do we have leaks in the center of our room?

00:52:11
Not pretty often.

00:52:13
We're going to have leaks on an interior wall where there's

00:52:16
plumbing, or we're going to have leaks on an exterior wall

00:52:19
because it's coming in from the weather outside.

00:52:21
So if I test in the center of a room, well guess what I am

00:52:27
going to most likely show.

00:52:29
It looks normal when just two feet away or less than a meter

00:52:36
away, if I just move this machine to test, it would show

00:52:40
off the charts levels.

00:52:42
So that became this other problem of people saying well,

00:52:46
my house is fine, I've tried everything, I'm hopeless, my

00:52:52
doctor doesn't know what's wrong with me, there's nothing wrong

00:52:54
in my house.

00:52:54
I had this person come out and I'm completely hopeless.

00:52:59
And so this happens so often that I had to tell people to get

00:53:04
another inspection.

00:53:06
And nobody likes to waste money when they do something right

00:53:10
that I said we're going to have to develop a test that is way

00:53:16
more efficient at getting us answers on what we're exposed to

00:53:20
.

00:53:21
Speaker 1: And can people do that at home?

00:53:23
Sorry, I interrupt you.

00:53:24
Oh, yeah, yeah, okay.

00:53:27
Speaker 2: Because we had to cut the professional out of the

00:53:29
equation, because the professional just wants to come

00:53:32
in and do this air sample, and it doesn't matter how much I

00:53:35
educated the client to interview the inspector and tell them

00:53:38
what they wanted, they just kept wanting to push to do the same

00:53:42
thing.

00:53:42
So I said, well, if we come up with a test that is consumer

00:53:46
friendly, that uses PCR technology so we can get the DNA

00:53:51
of what's actually there, we could probably develop a tool

00:53:56
where people just screen their entire houses and then back into

00:54:01
the data using PCR technology and then create a reporting

00:54:05
system that's really consumer friendly.

00:54:07
Because there was other tests that existed, like the ERME you

00:54:10
might have heard of right that used PCR technology, but it was

00:54:16
very confusing so it almost wasn't helpful.

00:54:19
So we did this and we are working on shipping this

00:54:26
worldwide.

00:54:27
Right now it's based in the US and for the first time, people

00:54:31
are using this tool as their step one.

00:54:34
Do I have a problem?

00:54:39
Speaker 1: So do they do the test and then send it back to

00:54:42
you?

00:54:43
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah.

00:54:43
So I think we've all tried an at home test or two before at

00:54:50
this point.

00:54:50
It's pretty much like every other at home test.

00:54:54
This was a sample box here, but you open this box and it looks

00:55:02
something like this and it comes with a little like a Swiffer

00:55:06
cloth.

00:55:07
That's the best way to describe it and it's completely sanitized

00:55:11
and vacuum sealed.

00:55:12
You collect dust from across your house.

00:55:14
You send it back back in this little box.

00:55:18
It arrives to the laboratory we partner with the largest

00:55:23
laboratory in the United States for environmental services and

00:55:27
they analyze it.

00:55:28
It goes right back into our reporting template so that it's

00:55:32
consumer friendly and easy to understand.

00:55:34
It's beautifully color coded so you can know this abnormal or

00:55:38
10 times higher or 100 times higher.

00:55:41
What are we looking for here?

00:55:42
And one of the reasons that you know the limit.

00:55:46
Every test has its limitations, right?

00:55:48
I just mentioned some limitations with the air test.

00:55:50
This test is not going to tell you where the problem is.

00:55:53
It's just going to tell you do I have a problem?

00:55:55
So this is a much better screening tool because you're

00:55:59
getting an average of what you're being exposed to across

00:56:02
the dust of your house, as opposed to testing one little

00:56:06
cube of space here.

00:56:07
That doesn't give you an accurate picture of what you

00:56:11
might be exposed to across all of the space.

00:56:14
What I liked even better about this whole idea was now people

00:56:18
can take this to their inspector and they can say look, I need

00:56:23
your help.

00:56:24
I see there is a problem here.

00:56:26
Can you help me find where it's coming from?

00:56:28
We're no longer asking someone to just take an air sample in

00:56:32
the center of the room.

00:56:33
We're asking them to put their detective hat on and actually

00:56:36
help us find something.

00:56:36
Now, through this process, we put people back in the driver's

00:56:42
seat.

00:56:43
They are now empowered to control the outcome of the

00:56:47
person that comes into their home.

00:56:48
That has really made a massive difference in people being able

00:56:54
to get where they need to go faster.

00:56:58
Speaker 1: Once they've determined, they've done the

00:57:00
test, they've determined that there is a problem.

00:57:04
What next Do they does the system go all right?

00:57:11
Well, if you've got this going on, like you said before, you've

00:57:15
got the leak under your sink, you need this thing.

00:57:18
The entire house is pretty bad.

00:57:23
You need this thing, or do you still have people that come out?

00:57:27
Is it DIY or a bit of both Can be.

00:57:33
Speaker 2: I just had a call with someone earlier before I

00:57:36
joined you.

00:57:37
Actually, they're doing a lot of this stuff DIY.

00:57:40
We went over the results.

00:57:41
Based upon their specific results, I was like it's most

00:57:44
likely in the HVAC system, because it's not so high where

00:57:49
I'm like there has to be massive leaks happening here.

00:57:51
It's not so low where the place is perfect.

00:57:55
We looked at it and said my guess is it would be the HVAC

00:58:01
system.

00:58:01
I asked them some questions and the last time they had it

00:58:04
cleaned it's been four years.

00:58:05
It's far too long.

00:58:07
It's probably in the HVAC system.

00:58:10
What sort of filter do you have?

00:58:11
Well, not a very good one.

00:58:12
If you don't have a very good one, these tiny particles pass

00:58:15
the filter because they're not efficient enough.

00:58:18
They're not capturing these tiny particles and they're

00:58:20
getting to the system.

00:58:21
We worked through that.

00:58:23
What sort of?

00:58:25
Have you had any leaks recently ?

00:58:27
Because I noticed on the test there was a species called

00:58:29
catomium.

00:58:30
Catomium takes three to five days to grow.

00:58:32
Could only grow if there's a leak.

00:58:35
Have you had any leaks?

00:58:36
Well, we've had these two leaks , good.

00:58:38
Have you repaired them properly ?

00:58:39
Well, yeah, we did this, this and this Good.

00:58:42
Was there a carpet in that room?

00:58:44
Yes, there was carpet in that room.

00:58:45
Okay, what did you do?

00:58:46
Well, we shot back up the water and we just put some fans on it

00:58:50
.

00:58:50
Okay, did you ever just check underneath the carpet?

00:58:53
No, no, no, we haven't.

00:58:55
Should we do that?

00:58:56
Yeah, well, we've got a lot of things that might be mold there,

00:58:59
because the carpet holds moisture.

00:59:01
You had fans on it, but how quickly really did it dry?

00:59:06
If it's touching another surface Two surfaces touching

00:59:08
one another traps moisture.

00:59:12
They had a laundry list of things to go and look at and

00:59:15
send me an email about and tell me, you know, to kind of figure

00:59:19
out next steps from there.

00:59:20
We got the HVAC clean, we're going to get the HVAC clean,

00:59:23
we're going to clean the house after, because we want to clean

00:59:26
the HVAC first, and then, probably a month from now,

00:59:30
they'll retest and watch those numbers drop.

00:59:32
The only reason a number wouldn't drop is if there's a

00:59:36
source, an organism.

00:59:38
They're constantly creating those particles, so you can't

00:59:44
decipher exactly where it's coming from.

00:59:47
But because I've seen so many of these things and have seen

00:59:51
and understand how these problems develop, it's really

00:59:54
easy for me even to guide people over the phone, based upon

00:59:58
those results, what's likely happening.

01:00:00
And then they just have to do some further investigation.

01:00:03
But they find it Now.

01:00:06
If I had seen their results and it was, everything was off the

01:00:09
charts and you know the colors were lit up all over the place,

01:00:13
which means there's elevation then I probably would have said

01:00:17
look, there appears like there could be several issues here,

01:00:22
and I think the best move at this point would be to get a

01:00:25
thorough inspection done so we can understand and correlate

01:00:29
what we're finding in the dust to where these things might be

01:00:33
growing, because when it gets that bad, there's not just one

01:00:39
thing you can do.

01:00:40
You may need to really look at it and say, okay, well, how many

01:00:43
of problems are there and what's the worst, how much

01:00:47
surface areas is covering and what are we going to need to do

01:00:51
to give them the best three or four steps they can achieve?

01:00:55
Because when you get to that level, sometimes yeah it can be

01:00:59
very overwhelming if you have to work on multiple renovation

01:01:03
projects at the same time.

01:01:05
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and wash all your clothes.

01:01:08
Speaker 2: And wash all your clothes.

01:01:10
Speaker 1: Okay, cool.

01:01:11
So you've got a bit of a system happening.

01:01:15
You want to reach 100 million people every year by 2030.

01:01:25
So what does that look like when it comes to a process?

01:01:32
So say, I come to your website, do you want someone to go to

01:01:40
your website and then have the test and then start using the

01:01:47
system?

01:01:47
What does it look like for you to reach and improve the quality

01:01:55
of life for those 100 million people?

01:01:58
Speaker 2: I think it starts with being able to reach 100

01:02:02
million people.

01:02:02
And to further clarify I'm not trying to make 100 million sales

01:02:07
.

01:02:07
I don't necessarily care if anybody buys something for me or

01:02:12
not.

01:02:12
What I care about is for 100 million people to now realize

01:02:16
holy cow, this definitely impacts my health and they do

01:02:22
something about it, and there are many people I work with that

01:02:25
do everything themselves.

01:02:26
I sell them virtually nothing, and the reality of the situation

01:02:31
is I don't even look at this from caring about myself.

01:02:36
I have two small kids, a four-year-old and an

01:02:38
eight-year-old.

01:02:40
If the population has been getting sicker since I'm a kid

01:02:44
and continues to go in that trajectory, as I'm getting into

01:02:50
the grave, if you will, and this is being passed down to my kids

01:02:53
and my grandkids and I have done nothing about this, what

01:03:00
kind of world are we leaving for the future generations?

01:03:05
And listen, I could be wrong.

01:03:06
Maybe my theory is wrong, maybe it's not, maybe air quality

01:03:09
isn't the missing link, like I think it is, maybe it's not, but

01:03:15
if I'm right, that helps so many people and I think that's

01:03:22
kind of the place where I'm sitting, and it's like if I can

01:03:27
help 100 million people, which is not easy to do.

01:03:29
By the way, I'm sure a lot of people listening are like 100

01:03:33
million, yeah, that's crazy, and I think the nice thing about

01:03:38
setting goals is if you reach for the stars, you might land up

01:03:44
on the moon, which wouldn't be a bad shot either.

01:03:48
If I do 50 million instead of 100 million, I think I'll be

01:03:51
very pleased with myself for the effort that I put forth.

01:03:54
I don't have a process for this part.

01:03:57
I'm going to be very blunt.

01:04:01
Speaker 1: Wow, they keep telling people and keep doing

01:04:03
what you do.

01:04:05
Speaker 2: You know if you ask what my process is.

01:04:07
I'm on here with you.

01:04:08
I try to go on as many podcasts as I possibly can because I

01:04:11
want people to really get this information.

01:04:14
I go on every news network that I possibly can.

01:04:20
I'm wrapping up my second book as we speak that hopefully does

01:04:25
better than the first book, and I'm just taking every step that

01:04:29
I can take and I say yes to everything.

01:04:32
I mean people tell me you need to start saying no to things and

01:04:35
I'm like no, because the more that I can get the message

01:04:38
across, the closer I get to that goal, and I think that if I can

01:04:45
even just make a sliver, just a sliver of health, hope and

01:04:52
happiness for somebody, it's all worth it and I think that's key

01:04:56
.

01:04:57
There was a book that I read that I think honestly changed my

01:05:00
life.

01:05:00
It was called the Healing Organization.

01:05:01
I don't know if you've heard of it, but the premise of the book

01:05:05
is there are so many of us that exist that create businesses,

01:05:11
that are entrepreneurs, that want to make a living creating

01:05:16
something unique, cool, amazing.

01:05:18
Of course, anything that we personally create, we will

01:05:22
always think it's amazing.

01:05:23
We're biased.

01:05:23
The premise of this book is to not just create something cool

01:05:30
or unique or useful, but to create something and to do good

01:05:34
in the world.

01:05:36
I think so many of us we rely on our governments to do good in

01:05:41
the world, and I think a lot of us, no matter what political

01:05:45
affiliation you may be, probably get disappointed in that

01:05:49
process, right, it's why, every few years, we're screaming let's

01:05:52
change regimes.

01:05:53
But we just see, saw and that never seems to work.

01:05:57
But what if we could do something about the world we

01:06:00
live in by creating amazing things that help other people?

01:06:04
And look from an economic standpoint how is our global

01:06:10
economy doing when 60% of the global economy is dealing with

01:06:14
chronic illness?

01:06:15
How many people are suffering and in poverty because of that?

01:06:19
That don't need to be?

01:06:20
How many people are not contributing to the flow of the

01:06:27
universe, if you will, because they are too sick to yeah, yeah,

01:06:31
Very true.

01:06:33
Speaker 1: I'm totally down with what you're saying and what I

01:06:36
love about what you're doing is that and this is kind of like

01:06:41
where I come from with a lot of the stuff that I like to teach

01:06:47
people Is that you're empowering people to actually go hang on a

01:06:54
minute something's going on and find out, because we do have

01:07:03
the ability to take control of what's going on in our homes, in

01:07:08
our bodies, and we forget right , we forget Life's fast.

01:07:16
There's a lot of stuff going on.

01:07:18
We get exposed to a whole bunch of other stuff that tells us

01:07:22
that we need to work, we need to buy this, we need to do this,

01:07:24
we need to eat this, we need to, you know, and we forget you

01:07:29
could even go so far, you know.

01:07:32
Then you get sick and then you go to the doctors and you need

01:07:36
to take this, and people just get into this whole momentum of

01:07:39
like someone else telling them what to do.

01:07:43
But what I love about what you're doing and what I believe

01:07:49
is really important is to give people their power back and,

01:07:55
yeah, make open their eyes to the possibilities of what you

01:08:01
can actually do for yourselves to be more energized, to be

01:08:06
healthier and like, I'm totally with you when it comes to the

01:08:11
small people you know and teaching them and creating a

01:08:17
better world and a better future for them, whatever that may

01:08:21
look like, Because I've got a seven and a nine year old as

01:08:28
well and, yeah, I think it's really important for us to

01:08:33
remember that if we're healthier , we're more energized, we can

01:08:37
take better care of those people and we can think more

01:08:42
positively about how we can support other people as well.

01:08:47
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

01:08:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to close, but just before we do

01:08:56
anywhere.

01:08:58
Where can we direct people to find out more about home plans?

01:09:03
Your book, how do we get?

01:09:07
Speaker 2: the weather.

01:09:08
Speaker 1: How do we help you reach your 100 million, apart

01:09:12
from on the podcast, obviously.

01:09:14
Speaker 2: So, please, you can definitely go to my website.

01:09:19
It's themichaelrabinocom, and there's a wealth of information,

01:09:24
blogs, all kinds of amazing things.

01:09:26
If you want to go down a rabbit hole, there it is.

01:09:28
You should also follow me on Instagram, and it's at the

01:09:33
Michael Rabino.

01:09:34
And, with that being said so my book is under wraps.

01:09:39
It is going to be out in 2024.

01:09:44
And I can't I'm not ready to promote it yet because we're

01:09:49
still wrapping up and putting the finishing touches on it.

01:09:51
But if you follow me on Instagram or if you bookmark my

01:09:56
website or something, I promise you will see it.

01:09:58
But what I can tell you is the book explores how we have never

01:10:01
been sicker kind of like how I talked about today and it

01:10:04
explores how air quality may be the missing link, and there are

01:10:09
a compilation of amazing medical journals, peer reviewed studies

01:10:13
all out there that most people don't look this stuff up all day

01:10:19
long, with amazing client stories, including the story of

01:10:24
Gwyneth Paltrow and Christina Perry, and some really well

01:10:28
known American celebrities and, of course, just your average

01:10:33
families that have struggled as well.

01:10:35
And I think what people can expect from this book when it's

01:10:39
when it does come out next year, is it'll blow their mind.

01:10:44
You know the data that already exists, the information that's

01:10:49
already out there that draws parallels to air quality and our

01:10:53
health, and people will be probably astonished and you

01:10:59
might feel a little dumb, but that's okay that you haven't

01:11:03
known this information before.

01:11:05
And I want to remind you that I talked to doctors regularly.

01:11:10
There are so many doctors that have these aha moments when I'm

01:11:13
talking to them like, oh my God, I never realized that could be

01:11:16
that way it is.

01:11:20
Once you see it, you have an aha moment.

01:11:23
But if you haven't heard of it because it literally is

01:11:28
invisible as you look around, it's just not on our radar.

01:11:33
So I hope that when the book is released, people will find it

01:11:39
informative, because we want to empower people we don't want to

01:11:42
just tell them the world's falling apart and see you later

01:11:46
but informative, eye opening and can finally take control of

01:11:51
their health.

01:11:51
There are so many people that suffer from this.

01:11:55
I estimate about 2 billion people dealing with chronic

01:12:00
illness directly related to environmental exposures and if,

01:12:06
just again, just a slice of those people can get healthier

01:12:10
as a result, that's what I'm here for.

01:12:12
Speaker 1: Right, and one final question, michael when do we

01:12:18
expect to see your home friend system worldwide and in

01:12:24
Australia?

01:12:26
Speaker 2: Well.

01:12:26
Speaker 1: Australia is definitely a market.

01:12:30
Speaker 2: Australia is definitely a market I'm

01:12:31
extremely interested in and the reason being is because mold and

01:12:35
damp I pay attention globally.

01:12:38
Mold and damp has been extremely increasing awareness

01:12:42
in Australia.

01:12:43
There's some in fighting with the medical community right now.

01:12:47
Speaker 1: on is it a thing Is it?

01:12:48
Speaker 2: not a thing.

01:12:49
As I'm sure you might be aware of, the Sandeep Gupta is an

01:12:56
Australian doctor that advocates for seers and chronic

01:12:59
inflammatory response syndrome and mold illness.

01:13:02
So it is very much at probably.

01:13:06
It's probably today where the US was 10 years ago in terms of

01:13:13
pushing forth into the awareness category.

01:13:16
So I am extremely excited about Australia.

01:13:21
It's going to come down to some of the logistical challenges of

01:13:25
being ahead into the future a day and trying to make sure

01:13:30
people get properly trained and finding people in Australia who

01:13:33
want to learn a new way of doing things and, of course, one of

01:13:37
the other challenges.

01:13:38
In America people pay for a lot of this stuff out of pocket and

01:13:42
insurance only gives them a small portion.

01:13:44
So we have to understand how do we help people in Australia?

01:13:47
What sort of programs exist in Australia Insurance and

01:13:51
government assistance that allows this system to work, and

01:13:55
that's going to take some education, probably of those

01:13:57
organizations, to get there.

01:13:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, but it's going to happen.

01:14:01
Speaker 2: Well, we'll stay tuned.

01:14:03
Speaker 1: We'll follow you on Insta and keep up to date with

01:14:07
all of those things.

01:14:09
Speaker 2: At least that will give you all the advice you need

01:14:11
right now to handle things until I get there.

01:14:14
Speaker 1: Great.

01:14:14
Thank you so much for joining me.

01:14:16
It's been a pleasure and I wish you well.

01:14:19
Speaker 2: Likewise Thank you.

01:14:20
Speaker 1: Thank you very much.

Michael Rubino

Founder - Home Cleanse

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